Barbara City College
Committee on Teaching and Learning and Faculty Enrichment Committee
Minutes of Oct. 28, 2002
Intelecom: Cheryl Chapman, Larry Bertrand, Stan Francus
SBCC: Guy Smith, Gerry Lewin, Manou Eskandari, Pam Guenther, Michael Gallegos,
David Kiley, George Federman, Nina Warner, Jan Schultz, Marilynn Spaventa,
Jerry Pike, Melanie Eckford-Prossor, Curtis Solberg, Debbie Mackie, Jack Ullom,
Morris Hodges, Patricia Nunez, Eric Wise, Annette Cordero, Bronwen Moore,
Notetaker: Joan Cartwright
Smith Id like to introduce the people from Intelecom and theyll
explain what Intelecom is, but essentially were here to discuss and
show you some materials on telecourses and tele-web courses. These three people,
Cheryl Chapman, Stan Francus and Larry Bertrand have been kind enough to not
only come today but they came last Friday and spent 8 or 10 hours here all
day long discussing the three different groups of the tele-web courses that
are offered by Intelecom. I want to thank them for making an extraordinary
effort to be here to inform us and for having done so they get an honorary
Santa Barbara City College sweat shirt. Three groups on Friday and I think
the reception has been very positive so Im going to turn it over to
them. I want to say that we appreciate your having come all the way to do
Chapman Thank you.
Francus Well, we want to thank all of you. We really do appreciate the time
and attention that youve extended to us. Were colleagues; 2 of
us are retired, but weve been with the community colleges for a number
of years, and Cheryl will and Larry will introduce themselves. My name is
Stan Francus, and retired out of Long Beach City College a couple of years
ago after 34 years there. I did want to mention one thing about Intelecom.
Intelecom is a group or consortium of 40 community colleges, all from California,
mostly in southern California from Alan Hancock down to Mexico. The consortium
got started in 1969 and the colleges tried to get together to figure out how
to produce distance learning courses and deliver them at lower cost than could
be done individually, and by a group effort. When we started off it was traditional
telecourses, and over the years it has expanded into incorporating on-line
elements and a lot of this product is what Cheryl & Larry will be talking
about. The three of us are herewe have quite a bit of experience with
distance learning, and I was mentioning to Guy earlier that at any time now
or in the future if any one of us, or all three of us can be of help to the
individual or to your departments on any of these issues, please give us a
callconsider us a part of your Santa Barbara support team.
Chapman My name is Cheryl Chapman and I work part time at Coastline Community
College in the computer department as well a teacher ed and staff development,
but the funds sort of went away for that, so Im kind of volunteering
Bertrand Im a retiree from San Bernadino LA College where I was on the
faculty for 25 years, retired after teaching 31 years. I have been using distance
education over 10 years, coordinated that program with our 2 colleges and
our PBS station . I was on Intelecoms review and staff development committee.
I taught telecourses for at least 10 years.
Francus We thought we could find out your names and primary interests.
Lewin. Im a Learning Disabilities Specialist, and am very interested
in combining pedagogy, psychology and philosophy in terms of how people learn.
My interest is to create good learning environments.
Eskandari I am chair of the Poli Sci Econ Dept here and Im starting
an online course in American Govt., and my colleague Guy Smith pointed this
out as a very good supplement. So I want to see how good it is.
Guenther I am from the Math Department, and Im hoping eventually Ill
be able to teach an Education course mainly for pre-service teachers. Were
going to try to do hybrid so do some of it will be off campus so that we can
target and in-service teachers and fit their schedules better.
Kiley I am from the Lbrary. Im interested in doing library skills training,
or library skills instruction using this.
Gallegos Dean of Technologies.
Federman I do not work for Mike, I teach Computer Information SystemsIm
doing our first online class and we really have questions about the issue
of interactivity when you teach programming, database design & so on.
Im trying to find the best medium.
Spaventa, Dean of Math, Sciences & Languages.
Schultz Earth Science Dept. here.
Warner Fine Arts Department. I teach drawing, painting & design. We are
primarily a hands-on department. so a lot of this is initially turns out to
be fairly useless to us, but Im always interested to see what the possibilities
are. We also teach art history and so were doing an online course, but
its hard to teach charcoal on the screen, drawings
Solberg American History. I could probably most easily be awestruck and intimidated
by your presentation today more than anybody here, but Im certainly
willing to listen.
Smith That was a mixed message
Pike Director of Learning Support Services, which is housed in the Learning
Resource Center. We provide tutoring service, both online tutoring service
and face to face tutoring, so Im mostly interested in the interactive
components, specifically as they relate to student support and tutoring.
Eckford Prosser English. Im here mainly as a member of the Committee
on Teaching and Learning. As you probably know, teaching English via the internet
is notoriously ineffective. There hasnt been a lot of success with it.
Mackie Counseling Department.
Hodges Physical Education; I am the mens basketball coach.
How do you want to approach this? Well, we have a lot of options.
We found our coach for our online basketball team; thats good. Obviously
its just in theory, its a way to communicate. The thing that Id
really like you guys to leave here with is that regarding anything online,
you guys have the greatest faculty resources, you have the tech thing going
on, but as you think about online education or distance education, we really
have to put it into communication mode and not the presentation mode. This
is because there are so many things we cant do online synchronously,
meaning at the same time, such as art. I teach Dreamweaver and Flash this
semester, and you were talking about math and educators. I teach the computer
literacy class on linetotally online to inservice teachers along with
teaching & learning. Now obviously Im not doing their observations
with them or doing any sort of that interaction, but theyre doing it
on their own and my goal is for them to be able to use the tools that are
available to communicate with them. Right. I help them through the process.
So what we want to do is make sure that you understand what Intelecom has
to offer in the video.
Francus If you look in your packets in the course list, heres a list
there that the first 3 pages are courses offered through Intelecom & you
can see on the third page the new courses that are coming. Theyre being
developed now, and one very close to completion, the Endless Voyage, is a
replacement for the marine biology course right. The Unfinished Nation would
be a two semester American history. The next page has short-term courses.
That doesnt mean theyre offered for less than 16 weeks or 18 weeks,
what that means is these are courses that some of our member colleges expressed
an interest in. But only a few of the colleges, so what weve done is
the consortium has used our group buying power to get these leased from the
producers and made them available to our member colleges at a cheaper rate
than they could have negotiated on their own. So short term means that its
simply used semester by semester.
Chapman So the first 3 pages youll see that if theres any course
that fits into your discipline that would be already included in the membership.
Now the few courses that are available today with the teleweb component are
the Human Condition, which is the health course and Kathy OConnor had
looked at that on Friday. The other one is the Framework for Democracy which
is the brand new Poli Sci History course, and thats current through
9/11. And then the other one would be the Examined Life (the Joe thing). Joe
White was here, and he helped create the study guide for the video to be used
in a Philosophy course.
Lifelines in Madison Heights is the newest of the adult education entity and Intelecom also has a ton of products that you can use for that end and we talked a little bit about that insofar as using it with non credit. The Crossroads Café, I know when I was working in that department, I used that for basic skills training instead of the English as a second language. So again I want you to think about the scope of whats available and the materials, and Im going to show you a little bit of the video, and how it actually works in an interdisciplinary way. Because if youre a member, 25 % of any course can be used in your course whether its traditional or in the classroom online, or a hybrid, as long as its not the full telecourse at that point, with no student fees. Meaning that you can use 25% of any of the materials that are available there, i.e., if you need a clip from any of the Preserving the Legacy, which is an environmental piece. So just keep that in mind too and ask questions along the way. What were going to do is look at the Examined Life?
Smith No, the Health Course.
Chapman This is the 30 minute preview and if you want to pick up one of the
preview books, you can do that also. If you feel like you want to take a video
with you, you can.
Smith Let me just say a word before you start that. Intelecom has been around
for about 25-30 years. We actually used to offer some telecourses here and
what has reignited our interest in telecourses is that the web has allowed
the process to become a lot more interactive than it had been in the past.
Its currently our thinking that were going to join this consortium
for the next year, so we would be theoretically able to offer telecourses
in Fall 2003. The way that those are going to be delivered would be either
through Cox KCET, which currently broadcasts 9 or 10 of those telecourses,
and then in addition to that, Channel 21 which has been programmed by UCSB
and is now being spun off as a separate non-profit, the college is going to
have some influence over its programming. We would broadcast on a schedule
through Channel 21, so both those would be the venues for that. In addition,
theres some discussion about being able to stream these telecourses
either locally or through a third party, so it would be video on demand. Those
are the three delivery options it is. Then the fourth thing, which I think
is very interesting, that is if you were doing a traditional online course,
you could have access to up to 25% of this to incorporate into your online
course regardless. 25% of the total!
Chapman So that means you could do multiple courses.
Francus And for the courses that are already developed, theres the video
component which can be delivered in a number of ways, its linkedand
it often has a nationally recognized textbook associated with it. Theres
a study guide for the student that links the video work and the textbook,
and then any online web enhancements are linked through a student guide. Theres
also a faculty guide to assist the faculty member and gives them more indicators
and Cheryl will talk more about that.
Chapman So theres a lot of pieces that have been coming up through the
years, as you said, many years in the making. But now what weve done
is weve taken those materials that the instructor would normally use
with the student, and put them in an online package. You guys use Web CT?
Okay. Many of the pieces that are out there too by publishers have an e-pack
that is ready for the web, either in blackboard or Web CT. This particular
product that we just put together is totally html generic, so you can copy
& paste & use it whether its on a website or on one of the course
management systems. So first lets show you a little bit of the video,
and then Im going to get into the online components that we have available.
And again, only the three courses that are new have the online component.The
group viewed The Human Condition.
Cordero This is the Health Course?
Chapman The Health course.
Francus The three courses that she mentioned, the Human Condition, Framework
for DemocracyPolitical Science and the Examined Life--Philosophy course
are the first ones that weve done that have the Web enhancements &
the web connection on line enhancements. The courses you saw that are on the
third pagethe course list where it says coming soonevery course
from now on will be built that way. It will have the web components associated
with it. We have not gone back into the older courses and because of the time
and energy and cost. But everything now is in the digital format with the
Eskandari Im not sure I understand this web component. What is that?
Francus Okay, thats the thing that Cheryl will be explaining to you.
She should be better at it than me.
Chapman You can pick up one of those quick start cards. What Intelecom has
put together is a resource center for instructors. But because its national
and international, i.e., all of the campuses have their own faculty resources
and things like that, were not there to duplicate them. Were trying
to create a course that can be the bridge between the telecourse delivery
which is usually two or three meetings on campus, the traditional telecourse,
and of course you know about all the hybrids in between. This is just to kick
start somebody to get on the web in a format thats generic enough that
you can add your own material if you so choose, or you can actually run itin
other words, go with the information thats there and it still is a full
Eskandari This in connection with our online course? Is it a separate thing
Chapman Thats hard to say because heres a scenario. Weve
been teaching a specific course for 30 years, and now we want to go online
because thats the thing to do. This online material which
looks just like a course will bridge the viewing of the tape with the book
because the chapters in the videos dont match exactly because you can
use any textbook you want with the video, so you need to bridge it together.
So this would mean that you would put it in Web CT and create the course.
The added extra component is the video that youre having the student
stream, so you could get started this way.
Eskandari So this would make my course obsolete if I would use this?
Chapman You could use it instead of your current materials. But what we always
suggest, of course, is as you are the expert. you would want to put your flavor
in. In other words, once you see it youll see what Im getting
at. This is the way we start the course, facilitate the course, get the student
going from step 1, 2, 3,4, 5 to meet all the goals, then whatever you decide
is necessary to fill it in, you can devise. Its more or less interactivehow
many discussion questions do you want; its more about delivery. Again,
this is just a preview tape.
Chapman This is one of those courses that is current. The book that it usesagain
Chapter 1 in the book does not necessarily go with video 1. So what weve
done is match them up so the instructor doesnt have to go through and
do that. It is current video; they do take the concepts and interweave them
into the video itself to give the learner a different way of focusing in on
it. Again, we have the whole instructional design supporting why we do this
kind of thing as a presentation, but you have to keep two things in mind:
our teaching styles and the learning styles of our students. So the more varied
materials that you can have at your disposal is something that gives you more
creativity and a little bit more objectivity in reaching all the different
learners also. Now the next one Im going to show you is a little bit
shorter and its on a CD which you can actually take with you, the Framework
for Democracy. You can have one and this shows how the entire tele-web component
is put together. It shows the prints, the actual video and then the tele web
component. You can take one of those.
Lewin Are you ever going to talk about the cost part of it? What will be the
total cost to us?
Chapman Once youre into the membership, which is $20,000 a year, theyre
free to you to use. And then when you offer a telecourse, its a per
student fee which is $15-$20 for a 3 unit course.
Francus Guy, how much do you want me to go into this?
Smith I dont think you need to go into it . . .
Francus In all of our member colleges we pay an annual fee based on the size
of the institution. It is roughly about $15 per student for a 3-unit course.
Its about $5 and some cents per academic unit.
Smith Its my understanding that the college is currently budgeting for
kind of a blanket license for these for two years.
Eskandari Already budgeted?
Smith Yes, thats my understanding. The college has committed to covering
it now so their wont be a per student fee now. The student just pays
the tuition. The student doesnt pay; its what the colleges
fee is to the consortium.
Eskandari So for two years, this is already a fait accompli?
Smith That is my understanding. Is it your understanding, Mike?
Smith So, you dont need to worry about it finding money for the
per student fee.
Eskandari Well, as long as we already have it, then were only here to
learn how to use it?
Smith Thats correct.
Eckford-Prosser I hate to ask the obnoxious question. I didnt realize
it was a done deal. But why?
Smith Why what?
Eckford-Prosser Why do we need this? What does it do for us, for the fee that
would be paid?
Chapman May I?
Gallegos I dont think it is absolutely a done deal. If there are no
faculty interested in pursuing this, obviously were not going to go
forward with it. If there is faculty interest in it, we will.
Eckford-Prosser But I guess Im asking, but what exactly does this do
for us that designing courses with David Wong on our own doesnt do?
Michael Gallegos It gives us another option for students. Another delivery method. I dont know if
explained that we are also partnering with Cox to be able to have access to
the local cable channel, but well be able to use that as a resource
again. Providing another option for our students.
Eckford-Prosser So were seeing this as mainly for distance learning
Gallegos Yes. Mainly for distance learning.
Ullom But if theres something in the materials that you can use in your
course, you can use up to 25%.
Gallegos Right, thats a side benefit to being part of the consortium.
Eskandari Since both deans are here, I can ask if the school can hire new
people for a cheaper rate to administer these courses than they can pay me?
Will I be replaced?
Ullom Its the same thing
Eskandari presumably our pay has to do with creating something new.
Ullom Teaching will be the same.
Chapman Even the course comes in an integrated well-designed package, youre
not handcuffed by that. You can add, change, delete, use portions at your
Francus Its primary that the faculty member needs to control their instructional
delivery and what they think their course should contain. We try to tell administrators
Ullom First we want to get your input into it so it enhances it.
Smith How many of Intelecoms 40 colleges, what are the total number
of courses that are taught through Intelecom? How many faculty have been replaced
Bertrand Well, I taught at Valley College for a number of years, we may have
had 10-14 courses that would be the three terms, and I cant ever recall
any faculty being replaced. Youre dealing with a different student body.
Youre dealing with somebody who cant meet the typical schedule
on campus. Youre dealing with self-motivated persons, youre dealing
with mothers who cant find babysitters.
Eskandari Its the same rational for an online course.
Bertrand But at no time is the instructor replaced. The instructor is still
in command, the instructor is still giving exams, still requiring the papers,
still meeting the students. Theyre still lecturing to students in some
form or another. The instructor should never feel that hes giving up
the ghost. If thats the case, forget it, because then you are out. Im
going back to when telecourses first came out a number of years ago, and there
were deans of instruction that ran the program and then the Academic Senate
said, Hey, we dont have any instructor. We dont
have any knowledgeable person to run the Political Science classes.
The instructor of record had all of these students, so then it came about
in an acceptable way; instructors need to become involved, instructors need
to set up the program, need to review the exams, need to review the programs,
and need to update things.
Eskandari These questions may not be fair to ask here. Or you, but you know
were always concerned with things like that. People might think: Why
cant this be something done by a part timer? Why do we need a high paid
$400 an hour lawyer when a $15 an hour lawyer will do?
Francus I say its because you need those high paid instructors that
teach the courses.
I chair the Chancellors Office Distance Education Technical Advisory Committee, and Ive been on it since 1996. One of the things we made sure that was built into the revised regulations which took effect this July 1 is a reaffirmation, a confirmation that in the distance learning courses the faculty will be selected by the departments the same way they are selected for any other course.
Eskandari Thats part of Title V?
Francus Yes. That any distance learning course must go through the curriculum
review process even though it is already an approved course but now being
taught through distance learning mode. The safeguards were built in there
to make sure that distance learning is not misused. The only thing distance
learning should be is another option that faculty have to teach their discipline
and reach different audiences in a different way. So the protections have
been built into the system.
Wise I have two questions. One is when did Oceanis first start on video as
a telecourse and had it ever been revised in its history? Since it began
in the 1970s, has there ever been a video revision of that program?
Chapman Not until now. Thats what The Endless Voyage is. But thats
a different issue altogether. Im going to explain a little bit of that
so we can move on. Two things. Some of you have come to the online world without
ever being through any other distance education door. I think thats
an advantage and a disadvantage to some. I would love for you to look at this
as materials of education because you dont have to deliver it any way
shape or form. You can actually use this as content to develop your course.
In answer to your question, which Ive been dying to get to, it costs
a lot of money, between $500,000 and $6 million, to create these courses.
We use all experts from around the world so you know its high quality
stuff. The piece thats always missing in the online is to actually sit
down and pay somebody to create those materials. Its not easy. If youre
not a multimedia expert it takes forever. Or you are using your resources
on campus, which is always wonderful. Its between time that youre
supposed to be spending developing and time that youre supposed to be
spending teaching. Between that and your delivery mode, I think its
all about options. We have people that deliver telecourses that only have
2 meetings on campus.
You guys are so unique in that you have online courses that have multiple sections where you meet the student. You keep it open to options that you can deliver. Here is a philosophy course its been taught by instructor A for years and doing very well on the campus. Then they have a telecourse version of it for those who learn that way best and then they have an online version and a hybrid version. It seems that theyre going more towards the sectional thing where you have multiple sections for multiple instructors and now for delivery modes. What were finding too is that the students that are more traditional love the traditional face-to-face classroom. But Ill tell you if they miss a course or two or Ive had students that are transferred in my traditional class from Boeing, if theyre transferred to Seattle, they can finish the course because I have materials available via the Web. I think its going to be better when we can use them as materials in our traditional classroom, because I dont think that were using as many materials as are available. With all that said, lets pretend that youre having a traditional classroom course. Look at the materials as added extra value. But what if some day you want to bring that to a hybrid state? And thats where these materials come in handy. Or, say youre ready to go online and you dont have the time to develop all the materials yourself for these particular three courses and/or you know exactly what you want to use in between. So well switch over to the computer the video you can see
Chapman Okay, so as I said before, Intelecom put together some learning resources
from the educational point of view. This would be that those again traditional
classroom teachers and/or distance ed, or online instructors can have a place
to come and get a few resources. Again, as I said, we have higher ed and adult
ed stuff which covers English as a Second Language as well as adult literacy
and I think the other one is like pre GED, social community things.
If you click, and its Intelecom.org/ilern and thats how you get
there. This will give you an example again of how the course management systems
are out thereyou guys are waiting on that, how to actually take materials
from your traditional print and put them into online materials. And also the
faculty guide that comes along with all the materials for the tele web course
itself. And then theres a little form you can fill out if youd
like to go and look at these preview materials and they just make sure that
the license is in place.
Francus You mentioned about the submariners. I think it was a psychology course
that was developed by Middlesex and what they did was they would take the
video and then stop it. And then ask a question, and then the students responded
to that question then went on. So it was somewhat interactive, and they found
out that the success rate was very, very, very high. Could have been that
it was a forced community, they were underwater,..
Chapman Yes, they were visually
On the same note, Taking Leave, which
is a business course also was created in that same model. Its all on
CD ROM which all these materials are all the videos are being placed on CD
ROM for obvious reasons than DVD for space, and stuff like that. If I had
my druthers as an instructional designer, I would make sure that where it
says click and view the video, there would be just a short segment of the
video that goes along with read the book, heres the auditory part of
it, built in the questions and the interaction as you go along, but again
you cant always know exactly what that student needs for their learning
style. So thats why its hard to pinpoint.
Chapman Any other questions about the interface at all?
Lewin Are these materials accessible for people who may be deaf or blind?
Do you have caption videos for people who need to use that? Are there textual
descriptions for screen readers for the streaming video segments online?
Chapman The videos themselves are all captioned. What happens with the streaming
is that it hasthe transcripts are also available electronically and
we use Magpie which is the software that gets the transcript and will caption
the streaming or the QuickTime video. Again, thats Intelecoms
deal, mine is just heres the material for you to use and call me if
they dont work. Theyre working on all that. We had a really good
discussion Friday about the auditory maybe theres a lot of pieces
that belong to the video tape that are auditorily rich and not so much visually,
so maybe some of those pieces can be used as an auditory enhancement to your
course as well.
Chapman Any questions?
Ullom One of the issues you brought up, Manou, is a real issue, and that is
youre the chair of a department. You have a colleague whos developed
some Poli Sci 101 around this class. Its extremely popular and its
bleeding all your students off of your face-to-face class. Do you have any
control over that? Absolutely. The decision to offer the class is a department
chair decision; its not an administrative decision. So that you just
like you have nowhave the opportunity to say, well, we need not to have
this section so that this one is successful, etc.
Eskandari Were limited to that?
Ullom Yeah, right. So this kind of control is still within the domain of the
department because youre the one that has to jockey the courses with
Eskandari Just as long as you are sensitive to the facultys concern
on these issues, I dont see a problem. Faculty always feel they immediately
have some concerns.
Ullom Yes, and Melanies question was, How come this is a fait
accompli? Whats going on here? And your question following up on that
was going a little deeper. And its very understandable. Basically, the
reason the Intelecom is here is to show you the extra resources that are available.
If you want to use this to develop your own course, great. And develop it
in a way thats richer or different than the online experience youre
already had, great. If you want to use portions of it in your existing interdisciplinary
classes, great. Its just another resource that we think is rich, and
we also think that as time goes on its helping solve some of the problems
with the bandwidth and the streaming video. The fact that youve got
a video that gives you that and that for the students you simply cant
deliver the way you want it, you can give them that. Its done, its
made. I know, I went through the experience of developing things for an online
course in music and simply said its got to be on a CD ROM or its
not going to happen because of the quality and actually took the Power Points
and the examples and cued it to the CDs, etc. so a person at home could almost
get the same experience that they would get in the classroom, but not exactly
the same. I wouldnt have wanted to even develop the course at that time
unless I could have done it my way. And it would have never happened. I think
thats probably the case for a lot of faculty who have developed their
Francus The years that I programmed, Id get the same reaction over and
over again. But theres only one case that I really thought made sense
where I said well, I think youre drawing from one class. For example,
literature classes in community colleges were just going downhill with numbers
throughout the years. There werent that many to begin with so there
were two given online the telecourse without the traditional. But that
is about the only time I can remember there were other extenuating circumstances,
but generally with courses like psychology, political science, history, and
sociology classes, Ive never seen any documentation or anything to that
Smith Generally, theyre very different audiences.
Stan Francus Yes Id like to mention that Ive been involved with distance learning since 1975 and if I could stress that theres an absolute priority which is that the faculty control instruction. Distance learning courses should be able to be shaped and delivered by the faculty to express what they think that course ought to be. Isnt that the wonder of our level of education? You can go to three different instructors in the same discipline and get a different perspective, a different feel for the subject. The whole idea is that this is a faculty enterprise. Were 40 colleges driven by faculty;
knows from the great work shes done with D Tac that the arguments that
weve had at D Tac are not about taking away from the faculty, but helping
the state and other bureaucrats understand that this is a faculty driven enterprise
and that the faculty are not to be somehow relegated to a supplemental role.
So that is a given. That will always be there, and these are instructional
packages that you can use in almost any way you want. Dont feel totally
constrained by them or say, you know if I taught it just the way its
there, its not what I want to teach, then change it. Its open
Bertrand The significance of the faculty show in something that happened in
Kathys area a couple of years ago. We were broadcasting a health education
class from Dallas, and a doctor called in from Loma Linda and said that the
directions for CPR were not quite accurate. Apparently there had been some
changes and so we quickly had to put a disclaimer on that then the instructor
again came through with giving the correct procedure, mailed that out to students
for class lectures, and so on, so the instructor is always in command. But
you never know whats going to happen.
OConnor Things change very quickly especially in a field like health.
Federman I want to get on to that issue of change. First of all, my discipline
isnt in here anyway, so it wont help me. However, the problem
of creating that material, thats issue number one, but I want to get
to the issue of change. And dealing with material thats very expensive
to produce, at $600,000 to $2 million per video series, so clearly theyre
not revised every month or every year. Im wondering about creating the
stuff, revising stuff, and whether its worth it to us to add it to all
the other forms of online education. It feels like a very static medium in
terms of being capable of being updated.
Francus The video portion obviously is static, and we were mentioning about
this being a faculty driven enterprise. The factor that sells our member colleges
and also colleges throughout the country that lease these materialsthey
start telling us when they see thingsgee, this is getting out of date,
or this needs to be revised. Then either we, if were the producers,
or if were leasing it from some other producer like Dallas or one of
the other educational consortia, then we have to determine whether or not
it makes sense educationally and financially to revise it, because we know
it will reach at point at which if we dont revise it or replace, completely
replace it, that no one will show it. And thats the control, thats
the academic control. That this is scheduled by each of the colleges and their
faculty and if they feel that theres a point at which this is no longer
viable, where they cant make adjustments in the non video portion that
can clearly explain some new element or concept thats come up in the
field, that theyll stop using it. So its got a natural governor
to it and if a course gets to the point where we just cant use it anymore
we have to either revise it or scrap it and start with something new, which
is what were doing with marine biology.
Smith This is all facultys role too.
Chapman Because its not canned. I think thats what I think were
trying to get everyone to understand is that there were and are times where
a telecourse is delivered from beginning to end with very little interaction
because of the fact that its set up for a certain population of student.
That may not be atypical, and for us even at Coastline, our average age is
38, so were not really dealing with the 18-25 year old traditional student.
So some of the issues that are involved in keeping up the course too are a
little different. But also, they dont have to be all used; thats
what I think is a misconception too. It doesnt have to be used, its
not sequential, where it starts at number 1 and goes right through. But some
of the history pieces, some of the factual stuff has not changed. The updates
are usually taken care of via CD ROM and I think the answer to your question
is a little obvious in that the Web is now being used to update all those
pieces that are not. I think youre going to see a change in that the
26 episodes are going to be well, theres 26 and now heres
the new one. Maybe only one or two has to be changed. The exciting part is
that many people are just not aware of what is there, youre kind of
assuming that its old and outdated all of it, and theres like
30 courseswell, many more than thatbut that are available to you
that Im sure that even if you dont find something that is beneficial
for what youre doing right now, that there are instructors that can.
Even as library resources. Even as an indexed library resource. The history
courses are used tremendously a lot for that, so again, not everybodys
going to be able to use this as not everybodys going to be able to teach
online. I think its just a mix.
OConnor You need to remember that this isnt your whole course.
Youve got a 54 hour 3-unit class. This is 13 hours of videoyouve
got to get your own content, your own updates, your own labor into the class.
So you use the videos that you think are appropriate and from what Ive
seen theyre very well done, theyre very up to date, even in a
discipline like mine which evolves every day, My lectures dont change.
I dont try a whole new lecture every day. Theres certain core
material that youre going to give your students and then you bring the
updates to them, you send them the web sites to give them the new research.
Thats how you put your own flavor on the course. I was never interested
in any kind of TV kind of thingI just never wasIve always
said no. But I think this is an operation that is done by faculty
for faculty. Its a non-profit group. They are not here to make money
for themselves. Theyre here to provide information for us, and I think
its a really good thing for us to look at to see what we can use and
what we dont want to use, and after a couple of years if we dont
like it, we throw it away. If we like it, we get more involved. I think its
a good opportunity to expand.
Gallegos I also want to speak to the done deal thing. The only
deal thats done here is that weve set aside the money
to join the consortium. Weve been taking this from consultation for
the past two days now. Friday it went through the Committee for Online Instruction,
went to the ITC, now were bringing it to these committees, so nothing
is being shoved down anybodys throat from an administrative perspective
at all. If theres nobody thats interested in using it, then we
wont spend the money that we have set aside to join the consortium.
Federman Michael what kind of money are we talking about?
Gallegos $20,000 each year for membership.
Smith And that will probablythe way the formula is going, it will be
that way for two years, and then probably drop depending upon our usage.
Francus Drop the amount to less than $20,000.
Lewin Do you have to do pay every year for membership?
Francus Yes. Its an annual membership.
Smith One other note, in 2005 or 2006 Cox Cable signal will go digital. When
it does go digital, those two channels will be 4 channels so we can significantly
increase our ability to deliver signal to 68,000 homes in this area and also
when it goes digital its going to mean a move toward interactive television,
which is really a thing we need to give some consideration to.
Francus One of the points I was going to make is that a few years ago we looked
at television as computers as two totally distinct technologies. Theyre
really moving very quickly to emerge common technology and whether youre
going to have an intelligent television or a big screen computer, they are
going to be about the same, particularly with streaming video and digital
technologies emerging. So really what youre looking for, I think also
and what most of our member colleges are looking for is not just today but
for the future. You position yourself in such a way that you are a real presence
in your community and educationally in your region by having this. Right now
all of the courses that we offer are offered over CSat and that is shown over
dish network, so if you have any dish network subscribers anywhere in western
United Statesin your areathey could get these courses right now
over dish network. The other item I was going to mention is that the technology
Smith It is becoming more interactive.
Francus Once you get to pick up a lot of this programming time on a local
public access station, what we did in Long Beach and a number of other colleges
are doing, lets say you dont want to offer a particular course
for credit. But lets take the ESL course, Crossroads Café. If
you essentially are going to be able to program 90 or 100 hours through a
public access channel, maybe these courses (as being a member) you can put
them on the public access channel identified with your college. This is what
we do in Long Beach. Identified with Long Beach, or Santa Barbara as a public
service. And you give an entire program on ESL to your community. You dont
have to worry if you dont want to use it for credit, but the individuals
there are learning at home. Family literacy is made possible by this type
of method. You might say, well, we dont want to do adult ed, or we have
enough non-credit FTES, so run the Madison Heights as a contribution to the
community on adult literacy. Its a tremendous way to be a surface link
and a real engine for local economic, social development in your community.
And these products are all yours to use as a member.
Smith Jerry had a question.
Pike My questions about cost to students, about access to these materials,
video contact on campus, and the demographics of standards.
Okay just basically, if the student is going to take and watch cassettes on campus and watch it over the local PBS channel, if theyre going to use it in the library, any way they can see the video theres no additional cost other than what they would normally pay to sign up for a course?
Or they could opt to--as you said pay $55 for the set of videos
Chapman Yeah, they can get the whole set, or most of the students, if theyre
taking an online or telecourse, theyre going to tape the model when
it is shown, late at night, because youre not going to view it at 2:00
am or 4:00 am, depending on the PBS stations. But I think that the way that
you guys are probably going to integrate them youll be using more of
the video server end of it if youre going to do pieces, because then
you can build it right into your web site or your web course or web ct or
whatever. But they either rent them or they tape them themselves.
Stan Francus Most of our colleges provide sets in the library that students can come over and check them out like a book and go over to a machine.
Pike So they will need to use the LRC for viewing, and we will need to organize
it, monitor it, and so on.
Chapman While youre building the empire, youre probably going
to want to go towards DVD because the tapes are being replaced by DVD.
Lewin Marilynn had a question.
Spaventa Yes, I was just going to add that the non-credit ESL program uses
Crossroads Café now and students can check them out for a period of
time along with the workbook. But that requires coming in, checking it out,
going through a process. It would be so much more wonderful to be able to
serve many more people in that way (on TV).
Pike Are there assurances about costs to the institution, in terms of future
costs to the institution after the our latest web CT fiasco
Smith I think the difference here is that web CT is a for profit entity.
Chapman Yeah, they are for profit.
Smith Intelecom is a consortium of California Community Colleges.
Chapman The membership dollars actually go into production. So anything that
the members are paying and the student fees do go back into the production,
so too with the Web CT and Blackboard; that s why this is very generic.
Its not made for any one particular course management system for that
reason. You are held hostage too long if youre into one place and not
Meeting Adjourned 4:30 P.M.